Squeegee ban upheld

[Richards from DV]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/08/23/squeegee-court.html


Thank god. Can't stand these aggressive panhandler/squeegee guys.

[Munra!]

For some reason the link doesn't work for me.

[Richards from DV]

quote:Originally posted by Munra!

For some reason the link doesn't work for me.

Top court won't hear Ontario squeegee law appeal
Last Updated: Thursday, August 23, 2007 | 12:50 PM ET
CBC News
Canada's top court won't hear an appeal from 11 homeless men arguing an Ontario law that prohibits panhandling and squeegee kids is unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court decision means the law will stand.

In a decision released Thursday, the court denied leave to appeal to the men, who were convicted under the Safe Streets Act. As is custom, the court did not give a reason for its decision.

The law prohibits repeatedly asking people for money in an aggressive manner, washing motorists' windshields for money and allows police to issue $70 fines. It also forbids panhandling near ATMs, pay phones and public transit stops.

Lawyers for the men had argued that it violated their rights to freedom of expression, fundamental justice and equal treatment before the law.

The Safe Streets Act was back in the spotlight earlier this month when a St. Catharines, Ont., man visiting Toronto was stabbed to death after being approached for money. Four people have been charged in connection with his death. All are listed by police as having no fixed address.

Continue Article

The bill was launched in 1999 by the former Conservative government and then premier Mike Harris, and passed in 2000.

Social activists criticized the law as too aggressive. In 2001, a court challenge argued the province overstepped its jurisdiction by trying to pass a Criminal Code law, which is the federal government's responsibility. They also argued the law violated people's freedom of expression.

A provincial judge upheld the law, but did acknowledge it infringed on individual liberties.

With files from the Canadian Press

[Munra!]

Thanks Richards.

It's funny because some of those squeegee/panhandler guys actually make more money than some of us! Then you wonder why they're against the law that prohibits them to ask for money at the traffic lights.

[Mariachi]

Great. So if you only ask for change once, you're OK. No point in even purporting to work, as at least squeegying pretended to be. Wow, I feel so much safer in Vancouver now thanks to this law -- oh yeah, it's in Ontario.

[Richards from DV]

quote:Originally posted by Mariachi

Great. So if you only ask for change once, you're OK. No point in even purporting to work, as at least squeegying pretended to be. Wow, I feel so much safer in Vancouver now thanks to this law -- oh yeah, it's in Ontario.

Basically it is intended to crack down on aggressive panhandling. I see no reason to ban a guy from standing off to a side and asking for spare change. It's when they are aggressive, approach cars, squeegee cars even when the driver asks them not to....etc that I have a problem.

[DDD]

I HATE F........squeegee/panhandler

[lou-Sepher]

I used to like them. I would stare at them real hard and usually they would skip me altogether, but sometimes they would touch my truck and then i would get to have fun.

[Fornicator]

So carwashes will now be forbidden from washing windshields...?

That's the problem with laws such as this one: they will be applied differently to different people.

I have no love for aggressive panhandlers etc. but these laws designed to discourage/eliminate them are about as effective as banning drugs with the hope of eliminating users.

[Mandy]

quote:Originally posted by lou-Sepher

I used to like them. I would stare at them real hard and usually they would skip me altogether, but sometimes they would touch my truck and then i would get to have fun.

What did you do to them? I think I would just lock my door and turn on the wipers when they tried... you think that would work?

[Richards from DV]

quote:Originally posted by Fornicator

So carwashes will now be forbidden from washing windshields...?

That's the problem with laws such as this one: they will be applied differently to different people.

I have no love for aggressive panhandlers etc. but these laws designed to discourage/eliminate them are about as effective as banning drugs with the hope of eliminating users.

No, carwashes will not be banned from washing windsheilds. How could you possibly put that twist on it.

How is this applied differently to different people? If a squeegee guy is off to one side in a vacant lot with a sign enticing people to drive over for a free car wash, then nobody would mind. It is when they approach your car that it is a problem.

Enforcement will be an issue unfortunately, but the cops here in ontario are a bit more willing to enforce hte law than the vancouver ones.

[Richards from DV]

quote:Originally posted by Mandy

quote:Originally posted by lou-Sepher

I used to like them. I would stare at them real hard and usually they would skip me altogether, but sometimes they would touch my truck and then i would get to have fun.

What did you do to them? I think I would just lock my door and turn on the wipers when they tried... you think that would work?

That is why they are banned. It is your car and they should not touch it without your permission...period. You should not have to resort to using up your own windsheild washing fluid to stop them. If they showed some respect for peoples right to decline their service, the ban might not have been neccessary.

[lou-Sepher]

Maybe a guy should get one of those super soaker squirtguns, then if a squeegie kid approaches their car just letem have it, then charge them a dollar for the bath.

[Fornicator]

Okay, but today, for example, I was driving by a fire hall and the firefighters approached my vehicle when I was stopped at a light and asked me to pull into their hall parking lot where they were washing vehicles to raise money for some charity or another.

Would you expect these firefighters to be punished under the law? No way.

I realise it's a news report, but the article does say the law prohibits the washing of people's windshields for money--but this will only apply to the homeless wanting to do this, not Buddy's Carwash.

Laws are designed to be applied to all equally, but these laws aimed at specific groups don't.

Any legal expert will tell you they're really poorly designed and thought-out.

[M Grenade]

I just got panhandled outside of Starbucks not 15 minutes ago.

I got in my vehicle, saw this dude walking up, I could have ignored him but figured I'd be polite and rolled my window down an inch or so.... he started going on about "sorry to bother you, I'm blah blah blah" so I said "get to the point, you need a little help?"

and he says "actually I need a dollar, 2 or 3 actually"... so I say, "all I can come up with is a buck, here you go, good luck"

he said "thank you very much, thank you" and headed off to the guy sitting at the outdoor table in front of the starbucks...

I drove away, wondering things like 'how much does he pull in in a day I wonder', 'is he homeless', 'he was pretty articulate and had a good salesman-like manner, if it wasn't for the bad teeth and bad clothes he could probably do ok for himself in the real work world', etc etc

[lou-Sepher]

Oh sorry Mandy i didnt see you there. I used to take their squeegies away from them.

[Richards from DV]

quote:Originally posted by Fornicator

Okay, but today, for example, I was driving by a fire hall and the firefighters approached my vehicle when I was stopped at a light and asked me to pull into their hall parking lot where they were washing vehicles to raise money for some charity or another.

Would you expect these firefighters to be punished under the law? No way.

I realise it's a news report, but the article does say the law prohibits the washing of people's windshields for money--but this will only apply to the homeless wanting to do this, not Buddy's Carwash.

Laws are designed to be applied to all equally, but these laws aimed at specific groups don't.

Any legal expert will tell you they're really poorly designed and thought-out.

How then would you suggest we deal with aggressive panhandlers and squeegee "kids".

[M Grenade]

I actually seem to notice a "politeness" trend in panhandling.... "excuse me sir" "please could you help me out" "no problem, thanks anyway, have a nice day" ....

[lou-Sepher]

Violence.

[Fornicator]

I'd like to see those with mental health issues hospitalised and treated, and those with addiction problems put in detox and then into rehab.

I'd rather see the ones able to work put to work doing something.

Call it "workfare" or some such.

That would take care of most of them.

The problem isn't squeegeeing or asking for money, it's the numbers of people doing it and the methodology they employ.

There seems to be a culture of entitlement amongst many or a disconnect from reality. I think many are also the products of bad or absent parenting. I'm not saying school civics classes are the answer but a lot of these kids need some pride in something, something to believe in--their country, themselves, something.

I bet mandatory 1 or 2 year National Service when you turn 18 would straighten a lot of them right up. I'd like to see that actually.

[Lise]

Y'know, they're all not that bad. I mean, they gotta earn a living somehow and I would prefer that they do this than to resort to worst things like stealing.

When there was a really bad snow storm last year, a group of squeegy guys actually went out of their way to push several cars off icy roads. Though I don't think much of them, this simple act of generosity really shines.

[Ace]

I agree with Richards...  It's a free country, and people are allowed to walk around as they please, squeegee or not.  It's when they use aggressive and intimidating tactics to bully you out of some change.  Those are the guys that need to be shut down.

[lolcat]

quote:Originally posted by lou-Sepher

I used to like them. I would stare at them real hard and usually they would skip me altogether, but sometimes they would touch my truck and then i would get to have fun.

lol

[Fuzzy Wumpkins]

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[M Grenade]